Comments on: (V1.0) The Guide to 100%-Linux/KDE/Desktop-Success (The Linux manifest) http://peterpparker.wordpress.com Get my latest thoughs on Linux Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:12:14 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Daryll http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-202 Daryll Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:22:29 +0000 http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-202 KDE is based on QT which is commercial and is always worked upon. This is the advantage of commercial product. Open source has advantage only if there are many developers but they could not be constant. The measurement is which has more changes or development / improvement happening. It does not matter if it is open source or commercial. But being commercial implies always development.... KDE is based on QT which is commercial and is always worked upon. This is the advantage of commercial product.

Open source has advantage only if there are many developers but they could not be constant.

The measurement is which has more changes or development / improvement happening. It does not matter if it is open source or commercial.

But being commercial implies always development….

]]> By: Shamar http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-198 Shamar Tue, 26 Jun 2007 07:09:06 +0000 http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-198 zparihar, "The reason why many companies chose Gnome is because of the LGPL license of GTK vs. the GPL License for QT." Which on itself is a really big, big reason to go the "GTK way" unless a really big technical advantage could favor QT. And just look at API stability. KDE/QT are so badly designed that even main classes must change for KDE 4. Just notice that applications do not inherit anymore from "*Components", since inheritance means "is a" relation, and obviosly an application is not a component. From an API design point of view KDE 4 is just GNOME 0.5. Maybe that explain why KDE changes version so fast. "Gnome doesn’t have a 3.0 plan like how KDE has a 4.0 plan. At least one that I’m not aware of…" libSSL has no plan for a 1.0 release. Still it's the most widely used security library all over the world. Please, be serious. If all you can say is that GNOME has no 3.0 plans ... Meanwhile notice that Nokia N800 (Maemo, i.e, GNOME) is a great success and for each Mac OSX sold Nokia is selling 10 N800. (I suggest you to buy one since it's the greatest device I have seen in years, much better that iPhone.) zparihar,

“The reason why many companies chose Gnome is because of the LGPL license of GTK vs. the GPL License for QT.”

Which on itself is a really big, big reason to go the “GTK way” unless a really big technical advantage could favor QT.

And just look at API stability. KDE/QT are so badly designed that even main classes must change for KDE 4. Just notice that applications do not inherit anymore from “*Components”, since inheritance means “is a” relation, and obviosly an application is not a component. From an API design point of view KDE 4 is just GNOME 0.5. Maybe that explain why KDE changes version so fast.

“Gnome doesn’t have a 3.0 plan like how KDE has a 4.0 plan. At least one that I’m not aware of…”

libSSL has no plan for a 1.0 release. Still it’s the most widely used security library all over the world. Please, be serious. If all you can say is that GNOME has no 3.0 plans …

Meanwhile notice that Nokia N800 (Maemo, i.e, GNOME) is a great success and for each Mac OSX sold Nokia is selling 10 N800. (I suggest you to buy one since it’s the greatest device I have seen in years, much better that iPhone.)

]]> By: Jesus http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-197 Jesus Tue, 26 Jun 2007 06:57:43 +0000 http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-197 Stop speaking. This is the dumbest, most grammar-freaked article in the world. It's written by some illiterate fool. Stop speaking. This is the dumbest, most grammar-freaked article in the world. It’s written by some illiterate fool.

]]> By: zparihar http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-195 zparihar Mon, 25 Jun 2007 22:25:50 +0000 http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-195 Shamer, The reason why many companies chose Gnome is because of the LGPL license of GTK vs. the GPL License for QT. Gnome doesn't have a 3.0 plan like how KDE has a 4.0 plan. At least one that I'm not aware of... Can't wait for KDE 4.0. Everyones doing a great job there! Shamer,

The reason why many companies chose Gnome is because of the LGPL license of GTK vs. the GPL License for QT.

Gnome doesn’t have a 3.0 plan like how KDE has a 4.0 plan. At least one that I’m not aware of…

Can’t wait for KDE 4.0. Everyones doing a great job there!

]]> By: FreeSoftNews » Blog Archive » The Guide to 100%-Linux/KDE/Desktop-Success http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-194 FreeSoftNews » Blog Archive » The Guide to 100%-Linux/KDE/Desktop-Success Mon, 25 Jun 2007 16:07:18 +0000 http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-194 [...] “I was always a friend of the open source community and used Linux for quite some time together with the KDE desktop but also with GNOME and others as they passed by version and version. I once created a online community but left after I felt like the developers weren’t listening to the users and therefore the future wouldn’t lie with KDE and Linux but with others. Since then I have watched the community constantly and took a close look at all the projects that were promising a revolution. For a very long time this was supposed to be the KDE 4.0 desktop but now it has come to my attention that 4.0 is struggling to fulfill all the dreams I had…” Read more… [...] [...] “I was always a friend of the open source community and used Linux for quite some time together with the KDE desktop but also with GNOME and others as they passed by version and version. I once created a online community but left after I felt like the developers weren’t listening to the users and therefore the future wouldn’t lie with KDE and Linux but with others. Since then I have watched the community constantly and took a close look at all the projects that were promising a revolution. For a very long time this was supposed to be the KDE 4.0 desktop but now it has come to my attention that 4.0 is struggling to fulfill all the dreams I had…” Read more… [...]

]]> By: osViews | osOpinion http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-193 osViews | osOpinion Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:07:44 +0000 http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-193 <strong>The Guide to 100%-Linux/KDE/Desktop-Success</strong> I was always a friend of the open source community and used Linux for quite some time together with the KDE desktop but also with GNOME and others as they passed by version and version. I once created a online community but left after I felt like the dev The Guide to 100%-Linux/KDE/Desktop-Success

I was always a friend of the open source community and used Linux for quite some time together with the KDE desktop but also with GNOME and others as they passed by version and version. I once created a online community but left after I felt like the dev

]]> By: peterpparker http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-192 peterpparker Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:55:11 +0000 http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-192 First of all: I'm very happy the article is being picked up more widely right now and I really need your comments. As I stated on the blog, this article was written down in a short time but with a lot of thoughts in my head that had stayed there for a very long time. So it does sound sometimes not right and maybe not optimistic. It might seem too much Apple at some time and anti-Gnome? Nah... not really. I don't know a good way to answer right now because I don't know who will come back and read my comments but I will write a quick answer for you here. I was very happy that Aaron Seigo read the article and took his time to answer! I really apreciate your work and I know the KDE, plasma, strigii and all the other projects around KDE-people do a great job and will bring an amazing new desktop to the Linux world, but. I can't anything of you and I won't. I wanted to try to create a kind of vision and a paper around issues these projects face. KDE 4.0 is one of the major open source projects that replied to the outcrys of "when will it be released?" with a roadmap that would finish the project up ealier then expected because the basic rule was "its done when its done". I was afraid that would lead to leaving out other features, and you just told us that there is an idea for a mecia center for post-4.0. It's great to hear this but it already makes 4.0 for me incomplete or better it makes 4.0 incomplete for my vision. This brings me to the Apple thing. Its a lot of Apple in this article for now because this is the company/project that has risen to a new power in the last years but was close to death or a small corp. They relied on innovation and nobody can tell me that things like spotlight took the user in seconds. I'm not looking for fancy effects but for the efficent fancy desktop. This is what I think should KDE do and Gnome too. This is what I thought the vision was for 4.0. I'm not saying there is no complete vision for 4.0 but I know that there is no plan saying we will have a fancy spotlight-like strigii running. The way right now is: Someone will come along and put a nice search widget out for plasma and that will make it. I think there are some essential functions that should be taken care of to present a complete desktop from the beginning that is very user friendly and fancy. If you would go around on KDE-Look and -Apps right now you could build a great desktop or if you have a distro that provides the packages but the fact is that often you have to rely on basic KDE or some things that were chagned by the distro creators. Just take a look at some of the standard wallpapers that come with some KDE installs. It's a shame that there are not 20 awesome wallpapers (and sorry yes apple has nice ones there) that just rock out of the box. If you want to buy a PC and see a Mac and a Windows machine next to each other you would probably go with the Mac after checking it out for 5 mins, how about Linux check out? Well you barely can because the PCs aren't in stores but even if they would be. Take a look at the plan Kubuntu right now... I'm sorry but the default desktop is just a shame for KDE... these colors are killing my eyes! For Gnome. Yes it is very popular by distro vendors but I think the thruth is diffrent and I still think the Gnome people lack any kind of vision for 3.0. Has any Gnome developer replied yet? Okay I talked about it more closely. Any suggestions how this should continue? It should be a document that maybe puts some inspiration behind some developers so they might put out a presentation that stunns some press people and creates the damn attention Linux should get after all these years. I'm waiting for more of your comments and keep on asking questions! Thanks for reading! <strong>Update:</strong> I totally forgot at frist. Another point of this post is that it shows that this would lead to success for Linux and no one can deny that. So the question is: Shouldn't there be more voices saying why don't we go the ways of a stronger Linux? I don't think anyone could answer no to that... First of all: I’m very happy the article is being picked up more widely right now and I really need your comments. As I stated on the blog, this article was written down in a short time but with a lot of thoughts in my head that had stayed there for a very long time. So it does sound sometimes not right and maybe not optimistic. It might seem too much Apple at some time and anti-Gnome? Nah… not really. I don’t know a good way to answer right now because I don’t know who will come back and read my comments but I will write a quick answer for you here.
I was very happy that Aaron Seigo read the article and took his time to answer! I really apreciate your work and I know the KDE, plasma, strigii and all the other projects around KDE-people do a great job and will bring an amazing new desktop to the Linux world, but. I can’t anything of you and I won’t. I wanted to try to create a kind of vision and a paper around issues these projects face. KDE 4.0 is one of the major open source projects that replied to the outcrys of “when will it be released?” with a roadmap that would finish the project up ealier then expected because the basic rule was “its done when its done”. I was afraid that would lead to leaving out other features, and you just told us that there is an idea for a mecia center for post-4.0. It’s great to hear this but it already makes 4.0 for me incomplete or better it makes 4.0 incomplete for my vision.
This brings me to the Apple thing. Its a lot of Apple in this article for now because this is the company/project that has risen to a new power in the last years but was close to death or a small corp. They relied on innovation and nobody can tell me that things like spotlight took the user in seconds. I’m not looking for fancy effects but for the efficent fancy desktop.
This is what I think should KDE do and Gnome too. This is what I thought the vision was for 4.0. I’m not saying there is no complete vision for 4.0 but I know that there is no plan saying we will have a fancy spotlight-like strigii running. The way right now is: Someone will come along and put a nice search widget out for plasma and that will make it. I think there are some essential functions that should be taken care of to present a complete desktop from the beginning that is very user friendly and fancy. If you would go around on KDE-Look and -Apps right now you could build a great desktop or if you have a distro that provides the packages but the fact is that often you have to rely on basic KDE or some things that were chagned by the distro creators. Just take a look at some of the standard wallpapers that come with some KDE installs. It’s a shame that there are not 20 awesome wallpapers (and sorry yes apple has nice ones there) that just rock out of the box. If you want to buy a PC and see a Mac and a Windows machine next to each other you would probably go with the Mac after checking it out for 5 mins, how about Linux check out? Well you barely can because the PCs aren’t in stores but even if they would be. Take a look at the plan Kubuntu right now… I’m sorry but the default desktop is just a shame for KDE… these colors are killing my eyes!
For Gnome. Yes it is very popular by distro vendors but I think the thruth is diffrent and I still think the Gnome people lack any kind of vision for 3.0. Has any Gnome developer replied yet?
Okay I talked about it more closely. Any suggestions how this should continue? It should be a document that maybe puts some inspiration behind some developers so they might put out a presentation that stunns some press people and creates the damn attention Linux should get after all these years.
I’m waiting for more of your comments and keep on asking questions! Thanks for reading!

Update: I totally forgot at frist. Another point of this post is that it shows that this would lead to success for Linux and no one can deny that. So the question is: Shouldn’t there be more voices saying why don’t we go the ways of a stronger Linux? I don’t think anyone could answer no to that…

]]> By: OneLinux http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-191 OneLinux Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:59:38 +0000 http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-191 You're close to the real issue, but not quite there. The true difference between Mac OS X and Linux is focus. And not just focus but oversight, steering, and some form of management. The current model is far too chaotic to work. I have been a Linux user since 1995, and some of the exact same problems are still present 12 years later. They aren't the flashy, glorious, or even noticed issues so they get bypassed to create Yet-another-halfassed-app that will not integrate with anything else on the system or flounder and die when the dev gets a girlfriend or goes off to school. The kernel has oversight, and direction, and management... nothing else does. Every resource at Apple is focused on making one search app, one look, one whatever. They all are developed with the others in mind and integrate and work seamlessly. In-fighting and democracy rule in OSS development where everyone has a say nothing gets done and everyone breaks off to create their own better wheel. 1linux.blogspot.com You’re close to the real issue, but not quite there. The true difference between Mac OS X and Linux is focus. And not just focus but oversight, steering, and some form of management. The current model is far too chaotic to work. I have been a Linux user since 1995, and some of the exact same problems are still present 12 years later. They aren’t the flashy, glorious, or even noticed issues so they get bypassed to create Yet-another-halfassed-app that will not integrate with anything else on the system or flounder and die when the dev gets a girlfriend or goes off to school.

The kernel has oversight, and direction, and management… nothing else does. Every resource at Apple is focused on making one search app, one look, one whatever. They all are developed with the others in mind and integrate and work seamlessly. In-fighting and democracy rule in OSS development where everyone has a say nothing gets done and everyone breaks off to create their own better wheel.

1linux.blogspot.com

]]> By: Kostas http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-190 Kostas Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:39:02 +0000 http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-190 I was really torn when i finished reading this article. I guess i d have to say some of it makes sense.At the same time though alot of it doesnt. First of all that obsession with apple is beyond me.Apple products have some good qualities but for me they are the most overhyped products ever.Sure spotlight is good , so is all the bling and effects but apart from that what makes osx so good really ? What exactly is SO innovative about osx after all ? Its just a regular OS with a (very) cute face.There are some things we could learn from apple but those are not the right ones.In my opinion we should "copy" apple in two ways: 1)LOOKS OSX looks great.Thats what people find attractive about it.I ve seen people considering buying macs WITHOUT KNOWING THE FIRST THING about them just by looking at an imac running osx.Is it stable ? Is it fast? Is it reliable ? Does it offer interoperability ? Is it worth its money ? Whats the mac ecosystem like ? What kind of software selection will i have ? They didnt care.Apple had them had them at "hello".OSX is sexy and thats one of the main reasons people like it.Hell even i envy mac users sometimes for having such a slick os.But thats all.If there was a trully compelling reason to switch i would have done so,but there just isnt one.People feel attracted to "sexy" products just like they feel attracted to other people.Theres nothing rational about it,thats just how it is.Apple knows that and is using it to its advantage.We should do that too. 2)PR As Seigo said apple is very secretive.Its working ,sometimes for years, on something,then it creates a magical aura around it.After that it may leak some info and then everybody is waiting for the HUGE event (keynote).Then Uncle Stevie comes on stage , makes a few jokes, makes fun of the competition and at some point he announces the next "big" thing.By the time he does that it doesnt really matters what that is.Even if its something as trivial as "spaces" people get all worked up about it.INNOVATION ! they cry and start praising master steve.Its marketing , hype.Even if they announce that they are going to change the color theme for osx everybody is going to be talking about it the next day.We should learn from that.Announcing KDE 4 at a similar event sounds like a pretty damn fine idea to me ! *NOTE* Please dont flame me i am not saying apple sucks i am just saying its overhyped and its not worthy of all that praise. As for standardization i really dont know.Obviously having trivial differences that only hinder cross-distro compatibility is something that has to be dealt with but there are already movements in that direction.There are also advantages to having different distros too.I reserve my judgement on this one. I will have to agree that according to what i can see right now GNOME isnt doing exactly great.Each version looks and feels just like the previous one.I understand that real work is being done but i believe it isnt enough.I believe what GNOME needs is a GNOME 3 just as KDE has KDE 4.Something that will stir things up and create excitement momentum and ... innovation. Now for the main course:KDE 4 I have to admit i ve put all my linux eggs on KDE 4's basket.Sure its being developed for quite some time now.Sure it might not be the biggest thing the computing world has ever seen.But come on you cant be serious! First of all the developers never said that every single feature that was ever mentioned will make it to .0 .If you thought so that is not the devs fault.KDE 4.0 cant be incomplete because the features that are going to be included are not finalised yet so theres nothing you can say about that. Secondly if you go to kde look or kde forums and have a look at all the ideas and suggestions you will see that there are just too many of them.Some of them might even be mutually incompatible.Everyone is asking for something he or she would like to see in KDE 4 but obviously you cant satisfy everyone.Ive got ideas too but if i wont see them implemented i wont start bitching about it.You have to be a little bit more realistic about these things.I really have faith in the KDE devs.Sure maybe on their excitement they added a bit extra hype in it but that doesnt mean that KDE4 wont rock!I have no doubt that it will be the best desktop for linux ever , that will surpass vista and i still hold some hope it will make it to osx level(looks wise of course ;) )If it actually surpasses osx then i officially declare the KDE devs and artists gods :) (i wouldnt bet on it though) My point is: wait for KDE 4 final and then pass judgement.I am sure if you have reasonable standards you wont be dissapointed.I ve felt the same way you re feeling but its unreasonable.At some point i though KDE will take over the world with all those crazy features but thats just not how things work.I am pretty sure its gonna be great. I only hope it will be sexy enough to compete with osx. Keep in mind that developing something the size of KDE is no small task.Give em a break ;) I was really torn when i finished reading this article.

I guess i d have to say some of it makes sense.At the same time though alot of it doesnt.

First of all that obsession with apple is beyond me.Apple products have some good qualities but for me they are the most overhyped products ever.Sure spotlight is good , so is all the bling and effects but apart from that what makes osx so good really ? What exactly is SO innovative about osx after all ? Its just a regular OS with a (very) cute face.There are some things we could learn from apple but those are not the right ones.In my opinion we should “copy” apple in two ways:

1)LOOKS
OSX looks great.Thats what people find attractive about it.I ve seen people considering buying macs WITHOUT KNOWING THE FIRST THING about them just by looking at an imac running osx.Is it stable ? Is it fast? Is it reliable ? Does it offer interoperability ? Is it worth its money ? Whats the mac ecosystem like ? What kind of software selection will i have ? They didnt care.Apple had them had them at “hello”.OSX is sexy and thats one of the main reasons people like it.Hell even i envy mac users sometimes for having such a slick os.But thats all.If there was a trully compelling reason to switch i would have done so,but there just isnt one.People feel attracted to “sexy” products just like they feel attracted to other people.Theres nothing rational about it,thats just how it is.Apple knows that and is using it to its advantage.We should do that too.

2)PR

As Seigo said apple is very secretive.Its working ,sometimes for years, on something,then it creates a magical aura around it.After that it may leak some info and then everybody is waiting for the HUGE event (keynote).Then Uncle Stevie comes on stage , makes a few jokes, makes fun of the competition and at some point he announces the next “big” thing.By the time he does that it doesnt really matters what that is.Even if its something as trivial as “spaces” people get all worked up about it.INNOVATION ! they cry and start praising master steve.Its marketing , hype.Even if they announce that they are going to change the color theme for osx everybody is going to be talking about it the next day.We should learn from that.Announcing KDE 4 at a similar event sounds like a pretty damn fine idea to me !

*NOTE* Please dont flame me i am not saying apple sucks i am just saying its overhyped and its not worthy of all that praise.

As for standardization i really dont know.Obviously having trivial differences that only hinder cross-distro compatibility is something that has to be dealt with but there are already movements in that direction.There are also advantages to having different distros too.I reserve my judgement on this one.

I will have to agree that according to what i can see right now GNOME isnt doing exactly great.Each version looks and feels just like the previous one.I understand that real work is being done but i believe it isnt enough.I believe what GNOME needs is a GNOME 3 just as KDE has KDE 4.Something that will stir things up and create excitement momentum and … innovation.

Now for the main course:KDE 4

I have to admit i ve put all my linux eggs on KDE 4’s basket.Sure its being developed for quite some time now.Sure it might not be the biggest thing the computing world has ever seen.But come on you cant be serious!

First of all the developers never said that every single feature that was ever mentioned will make it to .0 .If you thought so that is not the devs fault.KDE 4.0 cant be incomplete because the features that are going to be included are not finalised yet so theres nothing you can say about that.

Secondly if you go to kde look or kde forums and have a look at all the ideas and suggestions you will see that there are just too many of them.Some of them might even be mutually incompatible.Everyone is asking for something he or she would like to see in KDE 4 but obviously you cant satisfy everyone.Ive got ideas too but if i wont see them implemented i wont start bitching about it.You have to be a little bit more realistic about these things.I really have faith in the KDE devs.Sure maybe on their excitement they added a bit extra hype in it but that doesnt mean that KDE4 wont rock!I have no doubt that it will be the best desktop for linux ever , that will surpass vista and i still hold some hope it will make it to osx level(looks wise of course ;) )If it actually surpasses osx then i officially declare the KDE devs and artists gods :) (i wouldnt bet on it though)

My point is: wait for KDE 4 final and then pass judgement.I am sure if you have reasonable standards you wont be dissapointed.I ve felt the same way you re feeling but its unreasonable.At some point i though KDE will take over the world with all those crazy features but thats just not how things work.I am pretty sure its gonna be great.
I only hope it will be sexy enough to compete with osx.

Keep in mind that developing something the size of KDE is no small task.Give em a break ;)

]]> By: Wouter http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-189 Wouter Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:36:55 +0000 http://peterpparker.wordpress.com/the-guide-to-100-linuxkde-success-the-linux-manifest/#comment-189 LSB - SDK download: http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/Downloads LSB – SDK download:

http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/Downloads

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